Is polyamory a path toward deeper connection, or can it become a clever way to avoid it altogether? This week the table welcomes Michael for his first appearance alongside regulars Dahlia and Noah, and the conversation goes straight at one of the most honest questions the show has asked. Michael shares his journey from a Catholic upbringing steeped in shame to discovering, almost by accident, that he wasn’t broken — he just wasn’t built for monogamy. Dahlia walks the group through a real-time shift in her own thinking, starting the episode convinced poly can absolutely be used to dodge intimacy, and ending it somewhere completely different. Noah and Alonzo test out a long-standing definition — poly as affairs of the heart, swinging as affairs of the flesh — and the panel doesn’t just agree, they push back. What emerges is a layered, honest look at what intimacy actually means, and whether the label you wear has anything to do with whether you’re actually capable of it. 

 Alonzo Banks (Host) · Dahlia · Noah · Michael (first appearance) 

Episode 46 — Sunday, June 14th When Poly Becomes a Reason to Avoid Intimacy
Alonzo banx: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Poly SoCal Podcast. I am still Alonzo Banks, and this is Poly SoCal Podcast. Tonight, we’re gonna be talking about when people start using, um, poly as a reason to avoid intimacy, or if, if they do that at all is gonna be the real question. Got a new voice in the house tonight and a couple regulars, so,
Michael: for one
Alonzo banx: hi, everybody
Michael: Hello.
Noah: Hey there
Alonzo banx: All right, so let’s do the round table thing. Um, Dahlia, I’m gonna pick on you first. Say hi. Tell everyone who you are
Dahlia: Hi there, I’m Dahlia. I’ve been actively poly for about 13 years, and I am dating Cupcake’s husband. So I’m part of the polycule with Cupcake and Noah and Cookie
Alonzo banx: Nice. And this is your second or third time on with us now?
Dahlia: This is my second time
Alonzo banx: Well, good to have you back. Let’s jump over to Noah[00:01:00]
Noah: Hey, people
Michael: People might remember me. I’ve
Noah: times, two or three maybe, you
Michael: two of them.
Noah: Um, yeah, uh, as
Michael: yeah, I,
Noah: Dahlia said,
Michael: I
Noah: a relationship with Cookie and Cupcake. Been practicing poly for a few years now, and, uh, happy to be here
Alonzo banx: Good to have you back, as always. New voice in the house tonight. Michael, say hello. Tell everyone who you are
Michael: Hello, I’m Michael. I’m, I’m excited to be here. And I have a little different angle I guess, ’cause I have a lot of intimate relationships, but I don’t know. I e– and I, I live with somebody primary. I’ve been in a couple, I don’t know if it’s the right term, but a couple throuples. But mostly I live with somebody, and then I have some other… I have a tendency towards three-way relationships, so I have a several of those. And I, even though I’m very, uh, I trip over the word committed to a close lifetime relationship, would probably call myself more a [00:02:00] relationship anarchist
Alonzo banx: Yeah, we have entire conversations here about what titles mean and how they, they are very fluid and subjective to people’s thoughts
Michael: Yeah, good. I can trip over them.
Alonzo banx: So the topic tonight i- is one that I, I find kind of interesting, because I think from the outside, a lot of people would think that, uh, poly people are, um, avoi- uh, adverse to intimacy, and that, um, the reason we date multiple people is because we’re afraid of or we don’t wanna get into a single, committed, intimate relationship.
So the topic is, is poly or does poly become a reason or a tool to avoid intimacy? And Dolly, I’m gonna throw you under the bus right out the bat. What do you think?
Dahlia: Uh, with my, like, [00:03:00] outrageous, uh, amount of
Michael: comes with the experience of
Dahlia: of anarchy, solo,
Michael: again, I,
Dahlia: egalitarian,
Michael: generally believe fitness is something that follows and trying to find myself, trying to find ways that I’d like to be healthy and exercising. And that’s why I
Dahlia: jumped through the hoops of different forms of
Michael: was in front
Dahlia: to find myself, trying to find
Michael: of
Dahlia: liked
Michael: you
Dahlia: be
Michael: value
Dahlia: tried to find what I called the right way
Michael: myself. I feel that there are ways to
Dahlia: avoid
Michael: but really it was like when
Dahlia: I did it
Michael: I would have thought I thought I was jumping headfirst into intimacy, but really what it was, was
Dahlia: actually avoiding
Michael: it when, it’s– I’m explaining it
Dahlia: it kind of weird,
Michael: kind of weird, but I would say that I was going to intimacy, but really I was avoiding it.
Dahlia: it.
Michael: So yes and
Dahlia: no,
Michael: if that makes any sense.
Dahlia: sense
Alonzo banx: Well, let me digress a little bit here. I’m gonna dig a little bit in the background. Have you been in monogamous relationships for any period of time? Do you have a point of comparison, or have you [00:04:00] always been in poly relationships?
Michael: I have been a
Dahlia: have been monogamous, so
Michael: I
Dahlia: I
Michael: know what poly was
Dahlia: was when I first started dating. Um,
Michael: like most of us who teenagers did–
Dahlia: if
Michael: anything, just didn’t grow up with any person who didn’t grow up with a female. Uh, we didn’t know what poly was unless you had
Dahlia: had
Michael: that
Dahlia: that
Michael: always
Dahlia: knowledgeable of
Michael: her at the same time.
Dahlia: kind.
Michael: Uh, so I grew up non-binary. I
Dahlia: monogamous. I had
Michael: this one sort of trans gender setup for most of my teenagers and young adulthood until I was 19. So I had three monogamous relationships. Um, it wasn’t until I was 19
Dahlia: three
Michael: that
Dahlia: relationships, and it wasn’t until I was 19 that I fell
Michael: love with someone else while I was
Dahlia: engaged, and I
Michael: having this panic of, “Oh, no, I’m a non-binary.” Because it was, why is it not as vulnerable with
Dahlia: falling in love with
Michael: this other person
Dahlia: while I
Michael: I
Dahlia: so deeply committed[00:05:00]
Michael: married to this person that I plan to
Dahlia: my
Michael: have a life with? And then I found
Dahlia: websites
Michael: websites and people and communities that said, “No, this is actually completely
Dahlia: actually
Michael: normal.” I
Dahlia: I started to
Michael: to expand my knowledge and with it.
Dahlia: from there
Alonzo banx: What does intimacy mean to you? When I say, “Are we avoiding intimacy?” What’s that word?
Michael: that on screen?
Dahlia: So I feel like the, the first, like, reaction and thought that most people think of intimacy is just like the bedroom intimacy. Um, so that’s,
Michael: I
Dahlia: physical
Michael: that the first reaction or thought that most people think of is the association of like, the drug-related issues. Um, so that, uh, we could say that the, the
Dahlia: Kissing.
Michael: Okay. Kind of
Dahlia: from
Michael: world. But, uh, I also view it as huge So,
Dahlia: deeper than [00:06:00] The surface level. So
Michael: was
Dahlia: say
Michael: just like more than
Dahlia: the
Michael: that you would
Dahlia: show
Michael: when a question was involved in Can I build on that a little? ‘Cause I
Alonzo banx: Please, Michael
Michael: I can re- relate to a lot of what Dahlia said in that, I mean, I was I’m a recovering Catholic, so I went to eight years of Catholic school, and so it was the shame was built in. And I tried to do monogamous relationships, but I’m fundamentally not, so I felt like the monster. And I felt up until the time I was 35 years old, everyone told me, “You just haven’t met the right person. You’re afraid of commitment,” or, you know, because of– because I, I didn’t know it was out there either.
I thought, you know, the… my first thing was, like, a s- the swinging lifestyle was where I first got introduced and, and got introduced to then poly. But it was, like, before that, I thought it was something that died in the [00:07:00] ’70s, and it didn’t exist. And so I was coming from a place of, like, this whole idea that you can only love one person doesn’t make sense to me.
Like, it didn’t fit my core. I didn’t have any support or anybody telling me that. I just thought it was something that was, like, inside, and everyone I talked to would resist it and, like, say, “No, you’re wrong. You’re afraid. You’re afraid of commitment. You’re just…” Like, and so I’d get a lot of pushback on that.
It wasn’t until I went to my first lifestyle party that, like, I, I… the best way I can put it is I felt like a gay kid in Kansas that had been sheltered, and I went to a party in San Francisco and finally went, “Oh, I’m not all alone.” so it was like a, an awakening of like, “Oh, wait, this is…” So to me, I would define intimacy as into me you see.
So, like, I find more intimacy from sharing who I am instead of trying to play a role of it being like if you’re in a relationship, it means [00:08:00] you do A, B, C. Instead, if I’m authentic and accept myself and accept other people, that’s intimacy. So just like Dahlia, I would say I was avoiding intimacy by trying to fit as opposed to when I started to open up and started being more authentic.
Alonzo banx: I’m liking that definition. Noah, are you intimate with all your partners?
Noah: I, I would like to, to think so. I, you know, I, um, I really like what, what Michael said about intimacy. How, how did you phrase that
Michael: In, “Into Me You See.”
Noah: me you see, which
Michael: Yeah
Noah: is interesting ’cause here it, it, it basically says what, what my definition of intimacy is in a much simpler way. Um, and my, my definition is basically, two or more people, um, being open and vulnerable with each other. being you’re in a state where you could be hurt, but you are [00:09:00] allowing yourself to be put in a position of, of, of risk because you are trying to get to know and appreciate someone better and vice versa,
Michael: certain different way,
Noah: It’s
Michael: which hopefully
Noah: a
Michael: in a healthy relationship, both people feel equally
Noah: able
Michael: to be vulnerable with you.
Noah: And I,
Michael: And I, and I think I, I do have that with my partner
Noah: now.
Michael: now. Like,
Noah: you
Michael: you know,
Noah: hope they’re not
Michael: they’re not here to condemn me,
Noah: but,
Michael: but-
Noah: uh, I,
Michael: Hmm
Noah: think though. I, I try to be as vulnerable as I possibly can be. Um, I’m sure most
Michael: most of us could always be more vulnerable than we are,
Noah: um, and it’s, uh,
Michael: and it’s something we should always be trying to work on.
Noah: Um, but
Michael: but, you know,
Noah: the
Michael: at the same time,
Noah: we’re
Michael: we’re all humans. We have,
Noah: fears
Michael: and,
Noah: and damage and
Michael: and baggage and everything else that makes us whoever we listen to.
Noah: So I
Michael: So I think it’s,
Noah: all
Michael: all the more beautiful and all the more important to be vulnerable
Noah: relationships, um, to
Michael: to ensure that bond.[00:10:00]
Alonzo banx: Oh yeah, I see you wanna say something, but I’m gonna set you up with a question again. I’m just, I’m j- all over putting you in the hot seat tonight, aren’t I?
Dahlia: I’ll take
Michael: so that’s
Dahlia: what
Michael: all
Dahlia: for
Michael: I got for taking a break before coming back.
Dahlia: coming back
Alonzo banx: Dahlia, tell me two acts of intimacy Really what I’m trying to get to is I really wanna illustrate the difference between intimacy and sexuality, because I think that line gets so blurred. And we’re using the term intimacy, intimacy, intimacy. Tell me two acts of intimacy
Michael: that. Okay.
Dahlia: immediately
Michael: of why is it that
Dahlia: is it
Michael: I started to text you and what somebody said
Dahlia: else
Michael: I
Dahlia: I was
Michael: message.
Dahlia: 19?
Michael: And it
Dahlia: it was
Michael: was because I met someone else
Dahlia: else that wrote with me, and this
Michael: message. This is how I wrote.
Dahlia: I wrote,
Michael: [00:11:00] And it really wrote
Dahlia: beautiful poetry.
Michael: And it
Dahlia: it wrote
Michael: with my heart stopped.
Dahlia: song,
Michael: And it was something that I
Dahlia: had
Michael: remember felt
Dahlia: matched with
Michael: before. It felt raw, it felt real, and it
Dahlia: and
Michael: felt intimate. But it was something that I had never felt
Dahlia: felt
Michael: with anyone else in that moment
Dahlia: moment
Alonzo banx: Nice
Michael: But I just thought it was an appropriate
Dahlia: of
Michael: thing to do outside of
Dahlia: of
Michael: this update
Dahlia: sexual stuff
Alonzo banx: Dahlia, from there, I’m, I’m still trying to get intimacy. Is it sharing?
Is it talking? Is it sitting on a beach together?
Dahlia: I think it’s connection.
Alonzo banx: Explain that
Dahlia: Like, it’s, it could be the sharing, the talking, the sitting on the beach, but it [00:12:00] is connection of it. You could sit on the beach with a stranger and have absolutely nothing in common. It is when you realize that there is something similar that you can share and that it means something
Alonzo banx: You had something you wanted to say before I threw you into the question
Dahlia: No, that, that actually was it. Like, uh, in “To Me You See,” that when Michael mentioned it, I was thinking about the fact that, uh, writing was one of the really big things to me back when I was young, and that it was such a big, important piece to me back then that felt no one connected with me with, that was the first thing that that person connected with me with, and that’s how come I just felt so deep into it. And that was an intimacy that I had [00:13:00] never felt before, and was love
Alonzo banx: Michael, I see you want to say something, but Noah was up first. Noah
Noah: Yeah, I, I think, um, you know, she’s, she’s hitting on something, Dalia. A- and that is, the, the sharing of something that you are– that you consider important, that’s fear or a joy or whatever. So for me, I, I, I think it could be anything that you might not just express to a random stranger at any time, right?
That, that’s… Base level intimacy is something where you are expressing something to someone that maybe you wouldn’t just express to anybody or share something with someone that you wouldn’t just express or share with somebody, with anybody. I think the there, so like with the writing, for instance, right?
That was very, uh, something very important to you already, and then you [00:14:00] found someone that you could share that with. You found someone who understood you, who you could say, “Hey, look what I made, and let me see what you made,” and you c- you have this, this intimacy. can also be something like, um, the, the ability to be able to speak to your partner about a hurt that you’re feeling. You know, “Hi, John Smith, I feel, you know, that, uh, when you do this, it hurts my feelings, and I’d like to explore that a little bit. Let’s talk about it,” right? Or can be, you know, uh, even a compliment to someone else, ’cause that puts you in a vulnerable spot, right? You’ve got– You’re, you’re, you’re telling them, “Hey, I think you look beautiful.
You look great,” right? Um, and i- if you can connect on that, that can be, um, intimacy as well. And then clearly being vulnerable, being naked in front of someone and having it be sexual is also another sen– uh, intimacy. Um, you’re literally naked. That’s you c- you don’t get much more physically vulnerable than that, right? [00:15:00] Um, so yeah, I, I think that’s, that’s really what it is. It’s something you share with someone who isn’t a stranger, and the, the deeper you go with that and the more vulnerable you are, the, the stronger and deeper your, your relationship becomes.
Michael: Yeah, and I, I like that whole, like, r-really getting naked instead of just physically naked. You know? Like, how do you show that? And, the experience of my upbringing might shape the way I answer this question because, being raised the way I was and having so much shame as I did, I, I, I was hiding, hiding, hiding.
And so this whole experience has been about sh-shedding the hiding. Okay? And, and so the, uh, most– the two most intimate things I can think of sharing is, is not just the joy and the, and that new relationship energy, or that sense of excitement, or sharing something new, or being excited about it, or sharing dreams. But the two most intimate things that occur to me is, one, [00:16:00] what do I share when I’m afraid? Like, when I share something that I’m scared, my heart’s beating, I don’t wanna talk about it, and I do talk about it. That’s intimate. And then two, um, when I’m upset and defending, I can stop and say, “You know what?
Wait a minute. afraid, and I’m trying to defend my position because is what I did and what I’m afraid of and what’s going on for me,” instead of trying to just get, “Well, no, but you and I wanna talk.” Like, instead, get– just backing away, looking inside, and being like, “This is actually what’s, what my upset is.
It’s not because of what you’re doing. It’s because of something I’m afraid of or I’m unconscious about, I’m gonna talk about it.” Those are the two most intimate things I can think of when you ask that question
Alonzo banx: Let me give my position on this, and guys, tell me if you agree. Since we started the podcast, [00:17:00] I have been firmly in the camp that poly is about affairs of the heart, swinging is about affairs of the flesh. If we’re swinging, I may be physically intimate, but I’m not emotionally intimate. In the poly, the foundation is more emotional intimacy than it is about physical intimacy.
Now, those lines get blurred, and with how everybody uses terminology, it’s all over. But as a general statement, if you are using poly to avoid intimacy, you’re swinging No
Noah: Maybe. I’m not sure I fully agree with that. Um, I think that there are lots of ways you can avoid intimacy that aren’t just about, um, swinging per se. Um, it can be emotional, For, for one. It doesn’t need to be about the flesh. [00:18:00] Um, but I, I think that, um,
Alonzo banx: Hang on, let me get some clarification there. Hang on, hang on.
Noah: Yeah
Alonzo banx: that you can, you can be swinging emotionally?
Noah: Well, kind of, and here’s why I say that, right? So, um, yourself in a, uh, what feels like maybe a dead-end relationship, right? Uh, maybe it was monogamous, maybe you were poly, but it’s just the two of you now. There’s a third person that gets involved somehow, some way, it doesn’t matter. But you dump all of your energy into that new person while leaving the old person behind.
It could be emotional and physical. and me, swinging, um, at least from my perspective, is have sex with this person, and I also have sex with these other people on occasion or maybe a one-night stand or whatever. I go to a party and I have sex with three or four people or whatever the deal is, right? Um, but I’m always going back home to have sex with that other person too, [00:19:00] right? Um, and I think that avoiding emotional intimacy like we’re talking about here, or not emotional, but intimacy in general, um, can mean really restricting that, um, with your other partner in favor of another. And I think that can even happen with swinging, e-even emotionally.
Alonzo banx: Question I’m gonna go back to on that, but I want to stay on the topic of telling me if I’m right or wrong. Michael, am I right or wrong on the swinging intimacy?
Michael: Well, eh, I, I’m not big on saying right or wrong. A-
Alonzo banx: Mm-hmm.
Michael: um, to not avoid your question, um, given my history of being introduced to this whole alternative lifestyle through swinging, I might feel a tiny bit protective about that. and in the time that I’ve been here since ’97, I’ve watched these be this, like, two camps, I was actively a part of when I lived in Denver of, like, let’s, let’s get poly and [00:20:00] swinging and, and, um, BDSM, and, like, let’s get these communities to talk to each other because we’re all about acceptance, we’re all about… And so there’s a sense of that. And so I don’t… Y- I think it’s definitely from the general way, and sometimes I see people going into swinging where they’re in a couple, and they’re like, “We’re not… No emotions. It’s only sex,” blah, blah, you know? And so they do that. And so you’re right in that case. And I, you know, I’m big on saying there’s no such thing as just sex. Sex is a form of communication, and there’s no such thing as just doing it. And so, like, I live to connect to people, and so it, I, I can’t – I’m drawn to that. I don’t, I don’t just from that place. But I, I’ve also seen in the poly world where you can make it so complicated and so many definitions and how does this fit, and is it closed, is it open, is it… And so that can be its own way of avoiding it, too. So I don’t think it’s as simple as the [00:21:00] definitions. I think it’s individuals involved, and it’s what we’re doing individually. ‘Cause I’m in monogamy or poly or swinging, it’s, it’s what I’m, how I’m showing up is whether I’m avoiding intimacy or not
Alonzo banx: Like that. Dahlia, I’m gonna go to you. But hey, everybody, make sure to check out the website because I just put up a gigantic what flavor of poly are you quiz on the website that will give you a breakdown of all of the titles so that we can then argue about all of the terms. Dahlia, what’s your thought on my statement?
Dahlia: You’re not, you’re not gonna really enjoy my response ’cause it’s gonna feel like a cop-out. But I actually actively avoided swingers throughout most of my, uh, poly experience, and therefore I feel like I don’t really have much of an opinion that would be very good to weigh in here. I didn’t date very many couples beyond the couple that I have [00:22:00] currently been experiencing, and that’s not necessarily a swinger experience in its own sense, and therefore I don’t have much to weigh in on. And the only other
Alonzo banx: But, but you, but you do. But I’m gonna, I’m gonna put you on this one, okay? Define a swinger for me then If you actively avoid the swinger, define the swinger for me and the difference between a swinger and poly
Dahlia: So the only swingers I know are the ones that I’ve met in like BDSM communities, and most of the time it has been the, uh, s- unfortunately the stereotypical, saw you across the room and we liked your vibe.” And I am on the ace spectrum, and so I didn’t fit their vibe. So I just told them like, “I’m sorry, we’re not compatible,” and we moved on from there. So I don’t know [00:23:00] if there was any possibility of anything passing a of the flesh. And I don’t wanna say that it is only a of the flesh situation because I wasn’t ever able to move past that
Alonzo banx: I think that’s a beautiful answer. No, I’m gonna go back to something you said to me a couple minutes ago. You implied, and I’m putting words in your mouth, so you gotta finish off the statement for me, that if you are having a friends with benefit, purely sexual relationship with someone repeatedly, that that’s not swinging, that’s poly.
The inference being s- po- swinging are one-night stands. Committed relationships, even if they’re not emotional, are poly?
Noah: If that’s what you came away with, that’s my mistake. That’s not what I meant to say, I suppose, right? I, I do believe that, know, you could have, like, a routine swinging partner that you aren’t necessarily emotionally connected with, but it’s someone, [00:24:00] you know, a friends with benefits scenario, or maybe you only meet at clubs or play parties or whatever, right?
But, um– or swinger parties rather. Um, but yeah, I just think that there’s, um… This is a– It’s a nuanced topic. We talk about intimacy and swinging and poly. There’s a lot, there’s a lot to unpack, I think. Yeah.
Alonzo banx: Just exactly where I, I was hoping this conversation would go is the, as with most of the things we talk about, it is very seasoned to, to personal taste. Our terms are very mixed. Dahlia, I’ll call you on something that you just said ’cause I want a definition. You were talking about swingers and put it in the BDSM community.
Where are all swingers into the BDSM community?
Dahlia: Probably not. It’s just that my experience, most of the ones that I would meet were in the BDSM community.
Alonzo banx: Michael?
Dahlia: Um,
Michael: Yeah, that’s interesting, um, ’cause, [00:25:00] um, uh, my partner that I live with, that was more her history than, swinging, and she hadn’t really had any to that, and I had had a little bit to the BDSM. So it was like they were very separate worlds. So that’s very interesting experience with that, um, with that being mixed because that hasn’t been my experience that they were… In fact, I’ve learned some things from doing that. Like, I think the BDSM community is much, much better about consent and express consent than I think swingers are. yeah.
Alonzo banx: Hey Dalia, please. Sorry Michael, but Dalia, Dalia had something there she had to get in
Michael: I’m, uh
Dahlia: No worries. Um, so I have been expanding in my social circles lately, and one of them is, like, the Renaissance fair community, and I have learned that there’s a lot more swingers in the Renaissance fair community as
Alonzo banx: Yeah, fair people tend to be that way, huh?[00:26:00]
Dahlia: And so I haven’t experienced much of them being BDSM/S yet, but that’s also, again, I haven’t communicated too far into that.
I am just now expanding into that social circle. So yeah, the, I do know that they are out there, but I haven’t gotten my experience in that. So I do want to disclaimer, I know that they’re out there beyond my own experience. It’s just where I have been and where I have experience
Alonzo banx: Dahlia, you never need exclaim- disclaimers on this show. This is all about personal experience, and when you go through a number of these episodes, you dis- discover we all have different opinions, and life has, has changed us all and given us different perspectives to where that’s why we talk about this.
I mean, I, I was explaining to someone just today, you know, being in poly is really difficult. Someone should make a podcast dedicated to talking about all of the issues that we face [00:27:00] while we’re in the poly community, ’cause it can get rough. What do you think, Noah?
Dahlia: that’s such a great
Alonzo banx: Right? Noah thinks someone should make a podcast about that?
Noah: Absolutely. I think, I think we should do that. Maybe we should try
Michael: And tell everyone we know.
Alonzo banx: And we should tell everyone that we know to come listen to the podcast where we can all explain how this stuff is so easy anyone can do it. And there’s no reason for us to have to talk about the complexities all the time. So someone help me close this out. I go down the road one more time. Can you use poly as an excuse or a method to avoid intimacy?
And I’m gonna go down the road. Noah
Noah: Yeah,
Michael: Yeah, absolutely. I,
Noah: I,
Michael: I,
Noah: I
Michael: and I think it’s, you know, um
Noah: maybe I’ll
Michael: Maybe I’ll just use a very, like, [00:28:00] simple example just to kind of make it
Noah: Um, I, I love blowjobs. Man, do I love blowjobs, right? One of my favorite sex acts on planet Earth. And if, you know, one of my partners didn’t want to give me a blowjob, that’s fine, right?
They don’t have to. But if I found out with all their other partners, they’re handing them out left and right, and I’m not ever getting one, right? There’s, there’s intimacy being withheld from me. There’s an issue there that I need to try to understand, right? And hopefully, I can communicate with my partner.
Hopefully, we have enough intimacy to allow a real conversation to happen about that and be able to talk about it. But I think that’s, um, one, you know, major way. And that can really be about anything. If, if I find out that, you know– And I’m making these all up. This is, these are, you know… Like, I have a bad relationship with my mother, for instance, and my partner doesn’t want to hear about it.
But then I hear that they’re [00:29:00] listening to all their other partners about their crazy family trauma, and they’re eager to talk to them about it. I’m gonna feel some way about that. There’s a, there’s, there’s an issue there. There’s an intimacy problem, you know? And, and maybe it’s my fault. Maybe it’s because I can’t ever stop talking about my mom all day long, and she’s sick of it, right?
I get that. Um, but we should be able to talk about it and try to understand what that is. I should understand my issue is. Maybe I can fix something. And then she– I’m a straight guy, so that’s my situation. She would hopefully, um, be able to try to understand my position, and maybe we can come to some sort of fix for that.
We can work on, we can work on that. that would be a way to avoid intimacy, is if, uh, you are withholding something from one partner and giving it to another, uh, with or without their knowledge.
Alonzo banx: Well said. Dahlia, fair warning, I’m gonna have you close us out tonight ’cause I’ve been picking on you most. So you can sit here and think about what you’re gonna say in a moment when I, when I have you close out the [00:30:00] show. Michael, your thoughts. Can you use poly to avoid intimacy?
Michael: you can use anything. Um, uh, yes, and I think, um, uh, uh, i- in its practice of culture, I, I, I just wanna say I think I’ve watched people use the culture, and I’m gonna use that word on purpose, culture of monogamy as a way to avoid intimacy because they project and get enmeshed and don’t look at themselves thing, and that’s just a general term about the c- culture of it.
I think poly can be, if you look at yourself and you create just more enmeshment and more tr- mm, drama from that, it can be a way to avoid intimacy. So yeah, absolutely, I think it can be. I think that generally speaking, though, from what I’ve seen of the people that are brave enough to break this conditioning of, like, there’s only one way, say that I generally [00:31:00] see that people are coming from a place of courageously looking to break down the barriers and talk about things, because you can’t hide out as easy in a polyamorous situation as you can a monogamous one.
So, um, you know, just like I’m watching Noah and Dalia, and you ask these questions, this is a perfect example. I feel closer to all of you in here because, know, we’re, we’re talking about these hard things. My heart was racing a few times because I wanna contribute and be a part of it, and I feel vulnerable in this conversation. yeah, I would say generally speaking, the, the, the culture of mono- or polyamory elicits looking to create more intimacy, not less. Uh, yes, absolutely, it can be used as a way, just like anything can.
Alonzo banx: Like that. Okay, Dahlia. So I’ll pick on you less when you start out [00:32:00] being on the podcast more, ’cause we like having you around here. So close it out for me tonight. What’s the, what’s the final thoughts-
Dahlia: episodes. All right. So I started this believing, yes, you could start or be in polyamory to avoid intimacy because I looked back on myself in my early 20s and said, “Oh, yeah, no, I was in polyamory to avoid intimacy.” But then discussing intimacy, I realized intimacy is what brought love. Intimacy is what brought me into polyamory, and therefore polyamory is what brings intimacy, and therefore you can’t be polyamorous and avoid it. So even with Noah’s examples, like, yes, there are moments where you’re avoiding intimacy with your partners, but there’s still intimacy there. There’s just communication problems. That’s not avoiding intimacy. [00:33:00] That’s just having communication issues. That’s avoiding something else. So would say that it’s still kind of a yes and no, but it’s not necessarily that you’re avoiding intimacy as much as you’re avoiding maybe something else, maybe even avoiding something deeper, something inside yourself you need to acknowledge. And the wonderful thing about polyamory is that you’re building a community of people that love you, and these people are supposed to love and support you, they’re going to be able to know you on a deeper level to be able to make it so that way you can understand and respect those pieces of you
Alonzo banx: Very well said. Thank you. Michael, it’s been an absolute honor having you on for the first time. I hope we have you on [00:34:00] many more times. Dahlia, you know I’m always wanting you back on. Thank you for being here tonight. Noah, God knows how many times this makes for you tonight, but great to have you. I am still Alonzo Banks.
This has been the Poly SoCal Podcast. Have a great night, everybody