In Episode 58 of the PolySoCal Podcast, Alonzo Banx is joined by Noah and Kim for a lighter, blunt, and practical conversation about the red flags and green flags people notice when meeting someone new. From hygiene, authenticity, bragging, and money to consent, sobriety, communication, indecision, and learning how to read the room, the conversation looks at the small behaviors that can tell you a lot about someone very quickly. Kim brings a monogamous, poly-adjacent woman’s perspective, while Noah and Alonzo talk about what they have seen in poly, ENM, and play spaces. The result is less of a checklist and more of a conversation about being a decent adult: know what you want, be honest about who you are, respect consent, communicate clearly, and please, for everyone’s sake, wash your butt.
Alonzo Banx, Noah, Kim
PolySoCA-E058 – Red Flags, Green Flags and Balances
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Alonzo banx: [00:00:00] And welcome back to Poly SoCal. I am Alonzo Banks, and tonight we’ve got Noah and Kim in the house, and we’re gonna talk about flags. But before we go down that path, Noah, say hi
Noah: Hey, everybody. I am Noah. I have been around for a little while. You might know who I am already, but for those who don’t, I am in a bit of a polycule with my nesting partner, Cookie who is also now my wife as of recently, and then my other partner, Cupcake, who has also been on the show a lot. And she has her own husband, who has his own partner.
So there’s a, a bit of a kitchen table and metamour, paramour whole situation going on there.
Alonzo banx: Got the whole thing going. Kim, back. We had a long conversation with you last week. This is back-to-back weeks
Kim: I know. My gosh, I’ve crawled out from under my rock.
Alonzo banx: So tell us about you, Kim. What’s your background?
Kim: gosh, I’m so boring compared to Noah because I am not [00:01:00] poly. I am a boring monogamous little person. But I am what my friends call poly-adjacent. So I like learning about the lifestyle, supporting my friends in the lifestyle, because I think it’s important that we know what, about other people so that we don’t judge. Because who you love and what you do, that technically doesn’t concern me. I just like to know ’cause I’m nosy
Alonzo banx: Speaking of nosy, we had a very long conversation with you last week, and you’re going through some medical fun right now. So can we get a quick update for those who are following you from the last week’s conversation?
Kim: so I got all my drains removed, so no more waking up at 2:00 in the morning to measure weird bodily fluids coming out of myself. Talk about sexy. They’re working on my chest and the expanders. I might have to have a second procedure good old Lucille. But she’s doing her best to heal up.
So right now I’ve also [00:02:00] go-gotten off the pain meds, so that’s– everything’s more manageable now. just taking it easy one day at a time.
Alonzo banx: Nice. We’re glad you’re getting better. And for those who want to go back and listen to last week’s episode, hear all the pre parts about that. So the conversation tonight gonna be about flags
Kim: I will say one thing. I’ll start it off because I’m a goldfish and I will forget if I don’t say it, and I’ve already said it to you, Alonzo. Men, women too, but I suppose because it’s more prominent right now for men and the whole pheromone maxing BS, please, for the love of God, shower. Please shower. Wash your butt cracks. get in there, wash your nooks and crannies, please.
Noah: Wash your damn butthole. This has been a theme of mine is wash your goddamn butthole. I totally agree with you
Kim: Because it’s, you g- like some guys might think that it’s like musk. No, it’s not. It’s stinky, and a lot of partners are not gonna [00:03:00] want to smell you from a mile away. You know what I mean? So please, everybody practice some good hygiene. Wash your pits
Alonzo banx: Yeah. And,
Kim: bits
Alonzo banx: to add with that, don’t overdo it on the corrective the perfumes and the layers of scents. When you’re at play parties and you’re at cl- at areas, you don’t want a whole bunch of stink going on. Little bit of soap, clean your butthole, you’re good
Kim: I can only imagine a bunch of sweaty bod- I went to goth clubs and stuff, so I understand people dancing all night and how gross it would get. can’t imagine a bunch of nakie people getting all with too much perfume in the room
Alonzo banx: You think con funk is a thing? Yeah.
Kim: funk is a thing. Oh, is
Noah: Yeah
Kim: the poly? Oh God, at the play parties. at least get AC? ‘Cause it’s worse if you don’t have air conditioning
Noah: It’s like going to a Magic: The Gathering tournament, yeah,
Kim: Oh.
Noah: it’s… Y-
Kim: of those
Noah: ugh. Oh, yeah. No, a- and I’m not trying to make fun of people who are [00:04:00] into Magic: The Gathering. I’ve played Magic: The Gathering on occasion. I, am a fan of the game. I’m just saying there’s a type that tends to also play that game, and they don’t shower often.
It… a- and I gotta second the, the whole the thing about hygiene, a- and even as a man I think it’s incredibly important for women to be, on top of their hygiene as well. I’m a straight man, so that’s more my target, but I think that it is important, especially when you’re trying to be sexy or alluring or whatever, to at least be clean, right?
And to,
To put your best foot forward. I’m not requiring you to be some kind of goddess where you have the perfect body and everything, but just showing that you put in some effort, that you care about yourself and you care about your presentation, it means a lot. It’s the difference between being ignored or being approached, I think
Kim: Yeah, it’s– and another, thing, like, coming just thinking [00:05:00] back, don’t pull the whole alpha male, alpha female, whatever kind of shenanigans, for the most ti- most of people are lying when they say that. “Oh, I’m an alpha male,” or, “I’m an alpha female, and I do this, and I’m a six-figure earner.” No, you’re not, Billy Bob. you’re just not you don’t have a Black Amex, you don’t drive a Porsche. You’d want a– to give a certain persona, and you’re just coming off kinda like a dick, on both sides, regardless of your gender or your gender presentation. It– authentic, if you’re not, people are going to either notice right away and avoid you, especially I’m assuming if you’re at a party, people are gonna be like, “That guy, that girl?
No.” ” They’re a bunch of BS.” they’re gonna find out eventually, and now you’ve wasted everybody’s time, your time, their time, friends’ time. Just be authentic, ’cause not being authentic is a red flag, ’cause what are you hiding, and why?
Alonzo banx: Yeah, if someone’s being authentic, if they’re being themselves. You [00:06:00] can trauma dump on someone in the beginning. You can be too authentic about who you are. What’s that balance?
Kim: So I think it becomes a level of when you’re meeting someone, obviously everyone wants to put their best foot forward, right? You don’t need to talk about “My dad beat me when I was a kid,” maybe when meeting someone at an outside facility. Maybe save that for later. don’t be like, “Oh yeah, I live in a penthouse suite, and I drive this kind of car.” Be you. Be like, “Look, I like playing Pokémon Go. That’s what I do in my free time,” or, “I like reading sci-fi books,” or know, let your personality come out because a lot of people are going to be attracted to your personality. And if you made that personality up, now you have to have the stress of keeping up the lie, and lies always unravel because it’s never one lie. It’s a series of lies, and now you have a spider web and all it takes is pulling on one string, and it’s all gonna come down [00:07:00] sooner or later
Noah: So I think, Alonzo, to your point, the the fear of trauma dumping is is real. People should maybe hold some of that back for, the third or fifth date, right? Or whatever meeting, right? But there– the authenticity can still be, relatively shallow. And I don’t mean shallow in a bad way.
Shallow in the, “Hey, we’re getting to know each other on a first, introduction basis,” right? Within an hour of meeting someone, they shouldn’t know your whole life story, right? But being authentic means when, you hear a song you really you say you like that song. When someone mentions, that they’re into cars, if you’re also into cars, you can say you’re into cars, right?
Kim: right?
Noah: But don’t-
Kim: don’t know anything about cars, say it. Don’t
Noah: Y-
Kim: you do
Noah: And that’s the other side, is that, you can honestly say that you’re not into something even though the other person might be into it, but you can still be interested in what they have to say about it, and that’s how you build connection
Alonzo banx: I’ve always had [00:08:00] a a litmus test, when I’m talking to someone new, the conversation of their ex comes up. And for me, you can tell very quickly who they are by how they answer. If the beginning of their answer is they made X amount of money, they were this kind of professional, they drove that kind of car. When they come back in the beginning and they’re talking about what that person had rather than what that person was. And also, it’s a double-edged sword if they start talking about what a horrible jerk they were. They… There’s always levels to stories, but the truth is they could have been a horrible jerk
Kim: But if they have multiple horrible jerks in a row, maybe look at the, maybe we do have to consider a common denominator. I’m just saying. We’re all guilty of it. Just saying
Alonzo banx: But I’m always talking about the the materialistic thing is the one that always put me off.
Everything about their relationship is based on what [00:09:00] they drove, what they owned, how much money they made, you’re like, “Yeah that’s a red flag for me.”
Kim: Transactional
Noah: say the counter to that though, Alonzo, is this. Tell me all those things. That way I know what you’re about. Someone else might be about that, right? Maybe I am some self-centered guy that makes, whatever, $1.3 million a year at my hedge fund job or yada, and I’m willing to say, “Great I make more money than your ex,” and that’s the way that I can prove myself.
Fine. Match made in heaven. I’m not that kind of guy. I’m more like you, I think, Alonzo, and that’d be a red flag. But let’s be honest, don’t hide it. Tell me.
Alonzo banx: I was in a very long-term relationship with someone who their previous partner was, oof, nothing I could keep up with. And that was a very interesting first conversation was,
Kim: so here’s a question for you gentlemen. Is it a red flag, green flag, or neutral if your female partner makes more than you do?
Noah: Oh, I [00:10:00] have no concern about that whatsoever. I,
Alonzo banx: to me
Noah: yeah, I I am not the type to be emasculated by someone making more money than me. First of all, I have found that life has ups and downs, and maybe someone makes more than you today, and tomorrow that’s not the case. They lose their fancy job, and you get a great promotion.
Now all of a sudden their things are flipped. So you can’t always assume things are gonna be the way they are always and forever. Two,
Kim: Two
Noah: isn’t that great for me that my partner makes more money than me? Sounds like a, a great deal,
Kim: deal.
Noah: that I benefit from. So why would I
Kim: would
Noah: be a problem for that? And yeah, if I make significantly less, then perhaps there are, opportunities for me to help out elsewhere that makes life more makes life easier.
I can do more around the house and take care of the kids or whatever and stay home because my wage isn’t necessary. Perhaps that’s a choice I make like many women have made in the past.
Kim: make.
Noah: I’m not concerned with that at all
Alonzo banx: I agree
Noah: What about you, Kim? Do you expect men to all make more money than you?
Kim: No. So I don’t make a whole ton of money. I never [00:11:00] have. I’ve unfortunately the economy tanked when I got my degree, so it never got put to its actual use because the job I was supposed to get got eliminated. So I’ve worked customer service. I’m an admin assistant, i’m comfortable. But I also don’t need somebody to have to pay for me. I was raised in a way that if we’re gonna go to dinner, I’m willing to pay my half or I’m willing to treat you. if we’re in a relationship or even a friendship, let me treat you sometimes because in the end it’s all going to even out. It’s not tran- my relationship shouldn’t be transactional with somebody. So if he earns more and we’ve merged our finances, then, or we’re renting somewhere together, maybe it’s we pay is in proportion what we make. Going 50/50 might not make sense because of how much we, if there’s a big financial difference. If he makes six figures and I make five or whatever, maybe it’s [00:12:00] 40/60, and whichever that works, I think that comes to it. But I don’t think he has to make more than I do. I do prefer a working partner, or someone who contributes to the household. Like you said, if I’ve for some reason had a rich aunt that passed away and gave me all her money and suddenly, if my partner wanted to stay home sure. But now you’re expected, like you said, to c- to cook or clean or do the laundry or, know, keep things tidy because now you’re the one at home. So I think traditional roles, nowadays, it’s kinda good to see them going a little to the wayside you guys can cook and clean too.
Alonzo banx: We should do a,
Kim: to.
Alonzo banx: we should do a show on that. Is how… No, how do the traditional role models fit into poly lifestyles?
Kim: Oh.
Alonzo banx: Because there are some changes in that. That, that, that’s a good future episode. I like that one
Kim: Take
Noah: Absolutely. That’s part of what I was gonna say actually is I’m, all about [00:13:00] subverting expectations when it comes to relationships. I’m living a poly life and not really doing anything that most of society expects me to do as far as relationships are concerned, and I’m really not trying to be bound by anything that the rest of the world has told me to be
Kim: so what’s something if you go to a play party, or a swingers thing or whatever you guys do pardon my ignorance there. What is something that if you walked in a room would be an immediate I’m not going near that person? Just the minute you see them, you’re like, “Bad vibe, no.”
Noah: For me, and I think it’s probably different than what a woman might experience. So for me, I’m probably looking at more of a hygiene situation first, right? If there’s a, a hygiene problem that I can recognize right off the bat, that’s gonna be a problem for me. If, if– after a few seconds though, it’s gonna be primarily personality based, right?
Y-you have to kinda try to clock these things early, but do they seem needy or clingy? That’s the, a big red flag for me, right? If if they’ve locked in [00:14:00] on me and suddenly I feel like I can’t really even have a conversation with someone else,
Kim: else.
Noah: That’s a red flag for me in a situation like that
Alonzo banx: I think for me, I’m gonna go with a different one with that. From too many decades of too many bad experiences, it’s sobriety and the ability to make decisions. And if we’re talking about a, a poly group, want to meet both members or the group. I don’t like meeting one without meeting the others. And I know we’ve had many conversations about that, but way too many times I’ve had someone misrepresent their relationship to find out in very uncomfortable t- ways that their other partners didn’t quite agree with their availability
Kim: Now, do, have, and this is just me being nosy, ’cause I would think it would be a red flag if this happened. Have you had partners that have not, who have told [00:15:00] you they’re poly or they’re open, and then you find out that they’re not
Never met
Alonzo banx: that’s exactly what I’m saying. Yes.
Kim: okay.
Alonzo banx: Now, we’ve had this conversation before, and not everybody agrees with me on that. A lot of people are happy to just meet one of the, one of the members. I’m not. I have to meet the whole group because I’ve had it pull up times, and for exactly that reason. Someone says they’re free to play, and then you find out that their partner didn’t think they were
Kim: Okay
Alonzo banx: So a red flag to me is sobriety. not sobriety is the green flag. The opposite of in whatever substance you are partaking in, is the red flag. You gotta be able to give enthusiastic consent And I guess with that I can say there’s one more. I am not a fan of people that don’t make decisions. A [00:16:00] very big red flag for me is, “Yeah, I don’t care.
Yeah, if you want to.” That to me is “And it was nice meeting you. Have a good evening.
Noah: Yes
Totally agree with you
Kim: from Jungle Book. What do you wanna do? I don’t know. What do you wanna do? I don’t know. What do you wanna do? Sorry.
Noah: No, it, no I do completely agree with you, Alonzo, on that. I think it’s, I don’t know where that personality type comes from, what it is that they’re trying to communicate, but it does communicate a sense of either, A, this is just gonna be very boring and not fun, or B, am I just taking advantage of you?
Or worse, am I assaulting you? I don’t want to be.
Kim: be.
Noah: You need to tell me what you want. If you’re not sure-
Kim: But for me, it was like, you have that made up in your head
Alonzo banx: and you’re giving yourself a placeholder so that after we do whatever we’re going to do, you can come back and claim that it wasn’t what you [00:17:00] wanted
Noah: Yeah. Yeah.
Kim: But Noah, you said something that I think is a huge green flag, and that is aware of consent. Regardless of where you’re at know, the consent the other way around, not just I’m sober so I, I can agree to this,” but realizing, especially as a man in particular scenes, that it can come off in different ways than maybe people thought or intended. So being sure for both of you bringing it up that consent is a huge green flag coming from a female perspective
Alonzo banx: Absolutely
Kim: not gonna c- come up and poke somebody and be like, “Hey, we’re doing this,” and you’re like wait, who are you?”
Noah: No, I, I, it, the I had a, a relationship a, a couple years ago that y- on the surface seemed great. She was charismatic, very intelligent, which is something I’m really into. I guess I’m sapiosexual. I think they say it, right? I really like intelligent people, and she was extremely smart, very well-educated.
She’s a therapist. And a [00:18:00] lot of fun until we got into the bedroom, and then it was blank face. What are you into?” “I don’t know. Whatever you want,” or whatever, and it really just
Kim: Just
Noah: It became uncomfortable, and it made the sex less exciting because I wasn’t really willing to go anywhere scary, right?
Kim: right? Yeah.
Noah: And then on, on top of that I think she also felt unfulfilled because I wasn’t pushing, and it just turned into this really awkward scenario. And I … and yeah, I think the not being confident in what you want is a huge red flag for me. Scary. As a man, it’s scary
Alonzo banx: Yeah. And I wanna point, you can go into a situation and say, “I’m not sure if I’m gonna like this. go down this road a little bit and see how it plays out.” It’s different than just saying, “Yeah, I don’t know, whatever you want.” You can be proactive not having a defined goal,
But that’s a conversation and not just a, [00:19:00] “I don’t know, it’s up to you.” I guess that to me is a huge red flag, someone who doesn’t know. I also, again, because I’ve been at this too long, I will never be anyone’s first.
I’m not, I’m the– But that follows me into other areas of my career too. It’s like, if you haven’t done this before, we’re not doing this now. Because
Noah: Sí
Alonzo banx: I’m not gonna be the reason you wake up tomorrow morning and regret what happened tonight
Noah: So you mean that just in the sense of for a particular activity you won’t be the first?
Alonzo banx: Yes
Noah: Got it
Alonzo banx: If they ha- if they haven’t gone down that path before, I’m…
Kim: like a green flag for
Alonzo banx: Experience is a green fla- la- or more important, lack of experience is a red flag
Kim: Red flag. Got it
Alonzo banx: And that, that’s me. But again I got the gray in the beard. We’ll let the, let, we’ll let you youngins go out and get your black and blues the hard way. Yeah.
Noah: Yeah. [00:20:00] It’s interesting for me only because, I’ve only been really at this for I don’t know, what, four years now, maybe five. So I’m still feel like I’m relatively new. So in a lot of ways, like I’m doing things for the first time, i’ve checked a lot of boxes in those few years, but yeah I, and I think there,
Kim: I think that
Noah: it was not just my first time, but it was also that person’s first time in many instances.
Alonzo banx: And
Noah: And maybe yeah.
Alonzo banx: Yeah
Noah: That’s a good point
Kim: The willingness to learn would also be a green, whereas the opposite would be a red
Alonzo banx: Again, and I know it sounds like a fine line, but it really is. If saying, “I wanna go down this path, I wanna learn, I’m gonna be very conscious about where I say yes and no, and if we cross a line, I’m gonna speak up very quickly,” that’s very different than someone who goes, “I don’t know, whatever you want.”
Kim: ‘Cause that’s just taking a backseat to everything, and like you said, opens some doors. And like you said, [00:21:00] decision-making, it– does that transfer to other parts of their life? Are they unable to make decisions just in general, like financial or otherwise, if you’re looking, like you said, for nesting partners or spouses or long-term partners, are you going to have to make all the decisions and then, they hold a grudge because you made the decisions?
Alonzo banx: Yeah, communication is another big one for me. That they have to be able to be have some level of emotional intelligence so that they understand what they want and what’s good for them. A- if you’re dealing with
Kim: people who start arguments just to start arguments in relationships or anything like that, huge red flag for me. If you’re always blaming somebody and starting an argument because you have to be right, red flag
Noah: It’s hard to disagree with.
Kim: That I had an ex that did that. Nothing was ever his fault. He would make a fight out of everything. He got mad at me for being on my menstrual cycle his [00:22:00] birthday.
Alonzo banx: Was your fault
Kim: as if I had… if I could schedule it, I don’t have to worry about it right now ’cause everything going on, but if I could have scheduled it, I just wouldn’t have s- would’ve skipped it. It’s not like I knew it was coming, buddy. Sorry. Women can’t turn it on and off, but why start an argument about that except that you just wanted to argue? Yeah be kind and conscious of your partners, folks. Don’t just yell at them.
Alonzo banx: So Noah, you get to s- you get to see this from a number of perspectives. You get to see guys approaching your ladies, you get to see couples approaching you guys What’s a red flag? You’re sitting there and you’re watching someone one of your ladies, and it trips you off as a red flag, whether or not it does them
Noah: Yeah. I would say that my partners are pretty good with emotional intelligence and are usually tipped off to red flags faster than I am, I would admit. However, I am trying to be observant and [00:23:00] watching. And I think in my experience, the, the biggest things have been twofold. One is an aggressive stance.
I don’t know how else to put that except for looming over them, right? Now, luckily, they’re both relatively tall, like five-seven, five-eight, in that range, right? So for a woman, that’s pretty tall. And I don’t think that it’s too rough for them in general. But that has been something that I’ll notice, especially a taller guy, if they really loom over where they’re almost bent over at the hips to get closer and getting right on top of them.
You can almost see the discomfort in their faces immediately when that starts to happen, and they back off, and then they’re chased. I’ve witnessed that a few times. The other one is less of a threatening thing, and I think more of just a, a bad personality trait, and that is the like excessive bragging.
You’ll get this braggadocious attitude. They talk about [00:24:00] whatever, female conquest that they’ve had or talk about how much money they make or how great their job is or how many people they know. They’ll start name-dropping celebrities or whatever. Those are the kinds of people that really, I think freak me out in the sense of this is not someone trustworthy probably.
But you can see it on their faces too usually, the big giant eye rolls and trying not to be around it. That’s what I’ve noticed the most
Kim: Is it a red flag for you if a gentleman who’s, or female, whichever way it goes, is approaching one of your partners and they don’t wanna meet you? Especially if it’s your your nesting partner or something. If they’re like, “Hey, I want you to come back and meet Noah,” and they’re like, “I don’t want anything to do with him.
I just wanna talk to you.”
Noah: I don’t think I’ve run into that scenario. And I feel like both my partners would say something if that was a thing that had happened to them. I don’t think that’s been something that I’ve run into. I am not a, a big man by any [00:25:00] sense, but I’m 6’2″, 210 pounds. I’m not exactly tiny.
And so I think if I’m in…
Alonzo banx: stop it, Noah.
Noah: What?
Alonzo banx: You are a damn good-looking large guy.
Noah: I appreciate that
Alonzo banx: who doesn’t know you, you’re intimidating
Noah: Okay. I think there’s a, a, some level of protection that the ladies get when they’re around me anyways from there, right? You will hear about all the creepy stuff that happens when I’m suddenly around the corner somewhere,
Right? That’s… Which again, giant red flag.
If you can’t say something to them knowing the dynamic that’s going on when I’m around, probably something sneaky going on, right? But if I’m in eyesight, I have not not witnessed anything overly ridiculous or aggressive in my experience. Not to say that doesn’t happen to plenty of women out there, but it hasn’t been something I’ve experienced
Alonzo banx: Okay, Kim
Kim: I had a thought and then it left and I’m, I am such a goldfish. I’m so sorry
Alonzo banx: So Kim, [00:26:00] close out this episode for us. What have we learned tonight?
Kim: I have learned that there is a lot of communication that goes on both verbally and non-verbally in the your play parties and your polycules and all that happens without even having to say a word. In my head, been on and seen Noah and Cupcake in person and all that just the fact that they c- I picture them in my head communicating by just looking at each other and someone rolling their eyes and I just see it, and it kinda brings me joy in my soul. so I’m glad to learn that a lot of what feels like red flags in general translate over into other places, that there’s a lot of safety that goes on, I think, within poly and play communities that people wouldn’t think about. People are much more alert than you might see in Hollywood or vide- movies.
People are very cognizant and can r- call out when someone’s just a walking red flag
Alonzo banx: And we get them. Walking red flags happen. Yeah
Kim: The BDSM community when I was at goth clubs, like [00:27:00] you could see the red
Alonzo banx: Auf
Kim: walking through the room. You’re like, “Not that guy.”
Alonzo banx: We always say not everyone in that world is crazy, but all the crazy people are in that world.
Kim: world.
Alonzo banx: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Thank you guys for being on tonight. Noah, Kim, great conversation. Thank you. I am Alonzo Banks. This has been the “Polysocal Podcast.” Good night, everyone